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My IRC nick is: erodgers

Please briefly describe the interaction that caused you to file this ticket:

Below find the transcript.

Joined IRC for the first time with the honest intent to help and play nice. I rubbed a regular the wrong way and was quieted.

A newbie user was having great difficulty with a basic task, and was put down for trying to do "sudo su". I attempted to explain why this was a valid method in the README containing the instruction, and was put down as spreading false and wrong info.

I did escalate the issue a bit because I was flustered by the harsh treatment, and I am sorry for that.

I'm only here because I feel it is a big mistake to IMMEDIATELY attack a new contributor. I know for a fact that I spread no false information as I was accused of, and this is all a big misunderstanding.

The user with the driver issue was quite green and wearing on all of us a bit, so I understand the animosity toward him, unpleasant as it was.

Please note other IRC nicks that are involved in this interaction: zeitgeist

Please describe what action or positive change could be adopted based on this feedback:

I'd simply like to make it known that people reaching out to help others with Fedora need a bit more patience than I received.

Any additional notes or logs:

<smithxi> dcr226: can you just tell me how to make the package from the command line if it's on the desktop?
<zeitgeist> smithxi·: su -
yum install kernel-devel
exit
cd ~/Desktop/realtek-package
make
su -
make install; depmod -ae; reboot
<smithxi> i can't cd as root
<zeitgeist> can't can't can't
<dcr226> failed to type "exit"
<zeitgeist> i see you saying "i can't" quite a lot..
<smithxi> make package-name said nothing to do
<erodgers> After make; su -, need to cd back to user desktop.
<smithxi> nothing to be done for...
<zeitgeist> i suggest you copy what i just typed out to a text file, i won't be typing it again.
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<zeitgeist> every command i gave you above should be given from the ~/Desktop/realtek (or whatever this folder is) folder. to determine what dir/folder you're in use: pwd
the print working directory (pwd) command tells you where you are
<smithxi> i'm in the directory
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<smithxi> i try to make the package as user and it won't let me
<dcr226> smithxi, yum install @development-tools
smithxi, also hint slow down and read stuff
<zeitgeist> smithxi·: it's a tar file, untar it first
<smithxi> oh crap, that's what i forgot
<zeitgeist> you don't "make the package" . you untar it and make the files within it
<smithxi> how do I untar
<dmlloyd> Add/Remove software seems to be stuck in a "Waiting in Queue" state. Is there some process or lock file I should look for to fix it?
<zeitgeist> read the tar manpage or use file-roller
i.e. just click on it
<erodgers> tar -zxvf <file>
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<dcr226> dmlloyd, how long have you been waiting?
<dmlloyd> a day or so :)
<dcr226> yuck
<dmlloyd> I've been doing yum on the command line in the meantime
<smithxi> thank you
<zeitgeist> haha
<dmlloyd> but now I want to use the gui to install some games for these guys
<zeitgeist> dmlloyd·: yum should always be engaged on the command line
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<dmlloyd> gotta have tuxracer!
<zeitgeist> use yumex
<dcr226> dmlloyd, I don't use add/remove (since about F7 I think), but I'd be tempted to just use yum from now on
or yumex, yeah
<dmlloyd> yumex, hm sounds fun
I'll try it
I wonder if I can uninstall add/remove then
<dcr226> just ignore it, thats what I do
<dmlloyd> if I leave stuff around they're just gonna use it
:)
<zeitgeist> yumex is a far more robust gui, but should only be used during multiple package installs
<dmlloyd> I would if it were for me
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<zeitgeist> you should always use yum from the command line, much easier to get help if something goes wrong
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<dmlloyd> yeah I prefer yum when I know exactly what package I want to add or remove
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<dcr226> dmlloyd, well, there is always yum search
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<dmlloyd> yeah that's good but sometimes you want to browse by category
I don't think search does category, does it?
<dcr226> I guess not
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<zeitgeist> if you're creative with your query it can do pretty much whatever you want
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<erodgers> yum info is good, but I agree, I like having a categorized list.
<dcr226> I'm a big fan of yum, I spent some time last month digging around inside it - very complete imho
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<dcr226> hence the reason fedbot now knows how to yum
@rversion 14 x32 tuxracer
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<fedbot> dcr226: sorry, I was unable to locate that package. To use this plugin, you must be specific with package names
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<smithxi> okay I did it properly, but i still don't see a wireless option in the tray icon
<dcr226> ok, so fedbot doesn't know how to yum :-)
<smithxi> dcr226: you still here?
<dcr226> smithxi, lspci -k | fpaste
<nirik> sure it does, there's just no package named that. ;)
@rversion 14 x32 extremetuxracer
<fedbot> nirik: extremetuxracer-0.4-3.fc12.i686 Fedora 14 - i386|size 26MB|Date Fri Jul 24 12:00:00 2009
nirik: extremetuxracer-0.4-5.fc14.i686 Fedora 14 - i386 - Updates|size 26MB|Date Mon Nov 15 12:00:00 2010
<smithxi> dcr226: http://fpaste.org/Pa92/
<dcr226> nirik, ok so its actually me that doesn't know how to yum ;-)
smithxi, the module still isn't loaded. did you make install and depmod?
<zeitgeist> smithxi·: after you build and install the driver as per my instructions, you have to reboot
<smithxi> i did not depmod
<zeitgeist> critical: <zeitgeist> make install; depmod -ae; reboot
not too good at details..
<smithxi> thank you
<fedbot> Please visit our trac instance at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ and file a feedback ticket telling us about your experience in #fedora. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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<smithxi> that wasn't in the tutorial
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<zeitgeist> yea, i didn't type that out to you 23 minutes ago or anything
zeitgeist often hallucinates
<Southern_Gentlem> time to switch out the IV
yawn
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<zeitgeist> more #fedora-mkultra experiments?
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<smithxi> okay it is done, but I do not see any wireless options in the popup dialogue
<dcr226> smithxi, does lspci -k report your module yet?
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<smithxi> http://fpaste.org/CMLg/
how can I tell if it's reported?
<dcr226> read your own fpaste
<smithxi> but what indicated it?
02:00.0?
<dcr226> the bit that says "Kernel driver in use:"
dcr226 nods
<smithxi> kernel driver in use: atllc
so it is in use?
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<zeitgeist> no
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<zeitgeist> after all the clumsy behavior, i'd guess you didn't do it correctly
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<zeitgeist> for you, i'd suggest installing F15
<erodgers> 2nd
<smithxi> the only error displayed was something about needs -E not -e
<zeitgeist> the driver is built in to the kernel, i don't think you have the aptitude to manually install wireless drivers
<smithxi> zeitgeist: can I just upgrade to it?
<zeitgeist> no
it really drains the room when a 5 minute job turns into hours
<smithxi> would -AE fix it instead of -ae?
<dcr226> no
reading would fix it
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<zeitgeist> also reading the README that comes with the official realtek package
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<smithxi> i can't sudo su
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dcr226 goes for the litmus test...
<dcr226> smithxi, modprobe -l | grep 8192 | fpaste
<smithxi> errors on line 995 and 97
<zeitgeist> uh, sudo and su are 2 different things
completely unrelated
nowhere did i (or anyone else) tell you to "sudo su"
<smithxi> well the directions say "sudo su"
<zeitgeist> then they are written by someone who understands neither
<smithxi> dcr226: http://fpaste.org/nWUZ/
<erodgers> I do it all the time. It's written for a machine with no root password.
<zeitgeist> you do it all the time, so that makes it right because you do something you don't understand?
<dcr226> sudo su makes no sense at all
<smithxi> how do you reboot into the latest kernel?
dcr226: how do you reboot into the latest kernel?
<erodgers> I'm just saying, if you have no root password, sudo su - does the trick. amy people work this way, including apparently the author of the RT README.
<zeitgeist> it's WRONG.
<erodgers> k.
<zeitgeist> read the manpage for each,
<N3LRX> if you are updated your machine will automatically boot to the latest kernel on next reboot unless you choose otherwise.
<dcr226> +1, pointless
<zeitgeist> it doesn't make any sense
<erodgers> 15 works that way by default.
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<dcr226> no it doesn't
<smithxi> 15 has the drivers I need?
<dcr226> 15 has sudo enabled by default
<zeitgeist> good god.
<erodgers> Click "Admin user" on install for your regular user.
<zeitgeist> dcr226·: have fun with these chuckleheads
<dcr226> and you optionally get added to %wheel if you click "admin user"
zeitgeist, I'm outta here - Tea calling :-)
zeitgeist high 5's dcr226
<erodgers> Yes. No biggie. Just saying.
<zeitgeist> just saying "you're wrong"
<erodgers> Not really, but OK.
<EvilBob-Vote4Me> Tea? Is that what you are calling her this week instead of $HOTDATE dcr226?
;)
<smithxi> will drivers eventually just be released?
<dcr226> LOL
<zeitgeist> you can take our advice and LEARN, or you can continue on with false info
<dcr226> EvilBob-Vote4Me, she tidied the house today....scary
<erodgers> Would you like to hear from me why I'm not wrong?
<zeitgeist> no, because you are.
<smithxi> zeitgeist: what do I need to do?
<erodgers> There you go.
<zeitgeist> smithxi·: go install f15, or windows
<smithxi> f15 will simply have the drivers?
<zeitgeist> yes
<smithxi> where can I download it?
<zeitgeist> as i've said at least 3 times now
really?
<EvilBob-Vote4Me> F15 will be released on next Tuesday
<erodgers> It went gold yesterday.
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<zeitgeist> erodgers·: end your trolling nonsense
<EvilBob-Vote4Me> the final release candidate is basically the same and available at http://serverbeach1.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/15.RC3/Fedora/
<erodgers> Sorry, looks like we got off on the wrong foot.
<zeitgeist> you have only given out false or incorrect information
<erodgers> Harsh, and wrong.
<smithxi> EvilBob-Vote4Me: will there be a cd version?
will wireless drivers ever just be released for 14?
<dcr226> erodgers, you should perhaps read the manpage for both sudo and su
<EvilBob-Vote4Me> smithxi: Apparently not
<erodgers> <-RHCE, 15 years sysadmin.
<EvilBob-Vote4Me> smithxi: I can not comment on the drivers question
<smithxi> such bs
<zeitgeist> erodgers·: bs.
<Southern_Gentlem> erodgers, take my advise and drop it, and go take a break
<dcr226> smithxi, doubtful, they are a part of newer kernels. which I doubt will end up on f14
<erodgers> Want my number?
<EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: zip it back up, no one wants to take part in your contest
<Southern_Gentlem> erodgers, second warning
<erodgers> 805010794254612
<Southern_Gentlem> @quiet erodgers
--- fedbot sets mode +q #fedora erodgers!@
fedbot sets mode -q #fedora erodgers!@
<fedbot> erodgers, You have been quieted in this channel temporarily. Please read http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Channel_FAQ and consider changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the channel. If you feel this action was in error, please file a ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/
<fedbot> Please visit our trac instance at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ and file a feedback ticket telling us about your experience in #fedora. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
dcr226 hrms
<smithxi> well thanks for the help guys, i'll try 15
bye
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<EvilBob-Vote4Me> smithxi: Best of luck
--- fedbot sets mode +q #fedora erodgers!@
<fedbot> erodgers, You have been quieted in this channel temporarily. Please read http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Channel_FAQ and consider changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the channel. If you feel this action was in error, please file a ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/
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<jpuellma> that guy's not really being disruptive in my scrollback; looks like he just doesn't think there's any problem with someone wantign to sudo su

Thanks for your feedback!