Please fill in this template fully and provide all requested information. Incomplete tickets may be dropped.
This feedback is: {{{ [ ] Positive [X] Negative [ ] Neutral }}}
My IRC nick is: nix\
Please briefly describe the interaction that caused you to file this ticket:
Conversation with people of #fedora-social that abuse me, commenting non-related facts of my country with a answer about fedora russian and skype and other person making remarks about that es language is "Mexican't" and I speak "You say spinach I say Mexican't" and a non polite attitude.- They +q mode 2 times with excuses without a real fundament. Fenris02 start a conversation about crimes and war in my country for a example of the non legal in my country (i was asking for legal terms of fedora russian compiling Skype in koji). I respond with "read plan condor", that involves CIA and my country about crimes and war, so... +q applied to me. I mentioned nigger word in ironic mode, because i felt the racist or no tolerant of the US soul with Latin people, for the comment of Evilbob like '''"<EvilBob> nix\: As long as you don't claim to be American, we will be OK"''' WHAT IS IT?, 100% pure racism, why I'm not american?, I'm what?, sudaca?, chicano?, What Bob?.. Sorry but I'm american, America is a continent, United States a country. I feel that Evilbob and fenris02 have some intolerance to the bad english or non US people of regions like south america, arabic and black people. Before the incident, Evilbob be offended because a user say "bro", and he clear me in fedora-social that bro is used by a ethnicity in US (i know that afro people), so, WHY offend you?, what is the problem of Bob Jensen with the black people?. Other thing, I sended a Email to fenris02, because he no allow pm or notices, and he respond me in the fedora-social again, acussing me of say that HE is racist, the mail is at your disposal if you wish look it. I only seek for a explanation of the mistreat with my person and expose of history of my country, a bad piece of the history for a question about fedora. Today, one night later, again, DiscordianUK +q me because he say: "I suggest you stop the whingeing", BUT the start of the conversation is by fenris02 in answer to my Email, so, I disturbing?, i don't think so. Sorry for my bad english but i speak natively spanish, if no can understand the ticket tell me and I translate with a professional traductor in 24 hours. I want that the fact is clarified. I want help, promote and support fedora, no support abuse of intolerant people.
Please note other IRC nicks that are involved in this interaction: fenris02 - EvilBob - DiscordianUK
Please describe what action or positive change could be adopted based on this feedback: More tolerance for other languages, countries and ethnicities that no speak english properly and no teasing constantly. No mix personal thing or Country things with Fedora or technician stuff.
Any additional notes or logs: Yes, i have the entire log, attach the log of #fedora-social channel and mark with >>> the begin of the problem. Thanks for your feedback!
fedora-social channel log of the stuff about wrong comments of fenris02 and evilbob and bad attitude of discordianUK with +q two times and the rest or involved nicks speaking normally while I with +q fedora-social-log.txt
'''I read several previous ticket, I see fenris02 and evilbob have many reports of abuse, I believe that this is no coincidence. Please take an action'''
'''1.-''' Fenris02 and EvilBob troll me in #fedora-social. EvilBob commenting "Mexican't" and "Spinach" about Spanish language. Both, Fenris02 and EvilBob know that I'm from Argentina, South America, Spanish-Native. They both seem agree to set the dispute to me and annoying[[BR]] [[BR]] '''2.-''' is the second time that Fenris02 speak about the relationship between "Legal" and "Law" and the military coup and crimes against humanity in my country (Argentina) in the 70-80 years, non-related with the original conversation (My question about legal terms of Russian Fedora compiling Skype in rpm format and using Fedora logos) and wanting a fight speaking about a sensitive topic that involves blood, death, history, government, and 30.000 people missing, as if I had any connection with that. I have none[[BR]][[BR]]
'''3.-''' In short, EvilBob comments, Fenris02 and desire to dig into somewhat sensitive and annoying, it is clear that they have a personal problem with sudamerica or Spanish speakers. The Email that I send to Fenris02 talk about '''it''', I never accused of racist or anything similar, the Email only indicates that both he (Fenris02) and EvilBob, were demonstrating me, as a racist or if they had any problem with people from sudamerica, like redneck KKK or some ultra nationalist grouping hates everything that is not from U.S.[[BR]]
'''4.-''' '''Action or positive changes?''''''': Educate to Fenris02 and Evilbob that in the IRC we are all equal, and that the Fedora project consists of people of different nationalities, countries, religious and political ideas and are not therefore better or worse in any aspect.[[BR]] [[BR]] '''5.-''' Maybe I was wrong to attack fire with fire, but I let the anger taking me. Which does not mean they really Fenris02 actually told things that are the fault of U.S. and when I did notice I received a +q.[[BR]] And +q I know that +q is only 15 minutes, but is not a time of 15 minutes what disturbs me is the injustice and the fact in itself that can annoy me, abuse me, verbally, with partially racist comments and punish me with +q like I was less than them or my bad. Not to live in the U.S. and born in Argentina, sudamerica felt like a fault in #fedora-social actually. I no have any trouble with any guy of Fedora.[[BR]] I see how in sometimes, EvilBob refuses to gives support looking for excuses to arabic people (I know for the IP number).[[BR]] I see how Fenris02 and EvilBob abuse of a lot of users daily, is not casual a lot of tickets commenting similar troubles.
I took NO operator action against nix\ at any point during this rant.
Not even when he spammed me via email.
Logs and records will confirm this. The operators that took action were each time were someone else. Not me.
Replying to [comment:3 fenris02]:
I took NO operator action against nix\ at any point during this rant. Not even when he spammed me via email. Logs and records will confirm this. The operators that took action were each time were someone else. Not me.
That is right, fenris02. The operator was DiscordianUK, I know, he told that it was him in the last +q action. The other +q I don't know, maybe DiscordianUK or EvilBob, it is all registered in the fedbot's log [[BR]]
The mention of your nickname in the ticket is because the before mentioned conduct about the displeasant talk that you have regarding war, crimes, and the rest.[[BR]]
I did not spammed you, and YOU know it, I sent you a total of TWO Emails, the first one trying to clarify all the trolling towards me from you and EvilBob, and the second one commenting you about "Why you answer via IRC a Email conversation??".[[BR]]
And this is the second time in the year that you come out with the topic of war crimes and more sensitive stuff related with my country without any reason and without any relation to the talk that was maintained previously in #fedora-social.
WEB QUOTE:
You did spam me. Twice. Unwanted, trollish, trying very hard to start fights.
You neglected to mention above that you rely heavily upon google translate, and your english is poor. Your own words.
IRC QUOTE:
And again:
IRC QUOTE 2:
Why not just admit that you did not understand and then went on a rant bender instead of trying to blame others?
Also note that I did not make any remarks about es language at all. I did not make any racial remarks either. Do not blame me for what others did. I take no part in that.
EMAIL QUOTE:
i feel that you and Bob are a bit "redneck KKK ultra nacionalist", hating black people (i mentioned nigger ironically) , mexicans, latin americans, and all different to the model of "American Dad" animated serie.
No more, I no stand by a reply, a consistent and sincere reply, because, i don't think that you think different that the 80% of the United States people.
That is directly from you. Baseless accusations that have NO PART AT ALL in private or on IRC anywhere.
Do everyone a favour. take your racial slurs and throw them out. Never use them again. Not here, not email, not IRC, not anywhere.
You are offensive and looking for a fight.
Replying to [comment:5 fenris02]:
WEB QUOTE: Spam is most often considered to be electronic junk mail or junk newsgroup postings. Some people define spam even more generally as any unsolicited email. You did spam me. Twice. Unwanted, trollish, trying very hard to start fights. You neglected to mention above that you rely heavily upon google translate, and your english is poor. Your own words. IRC QUOTE: fedora-social_20130809.log:[06:34:20] <nix> fenris02: I no acusse you of nothing.- And yes, my english is very bad and really is a pain explain me clearly, because in Spanish i have more verbs and words than English so, Google translate no work properly. And again: IRC QUOTE 2: fedora-social_20130809.log:[06:37:11] <nix> fenris02: I say that Google translate no translate correctly works and verbs from es to en, so, is a pain explain me with the people that only speak english. Nothing more. Why not just admit that you did not understand and then went on a rant bender instead of trying to blame others? Also note that I did not make any remarks about es language at all. I did not make any racial remarks either. Do not blame me for what others did. I take no part in that. EMAIL QUOTE: i feel that you and Bob are a bit "redneck KKK ultra nacionalist", hating black people (i mentioned nigger ironically) , mexicans, latin americans, and all different to the model of "American Dad" animated serie. No more, I no stand by a reply, a consistent and sincere reply, because, i don't think that you think different that the 80% of the United States people. That is directly from you. Baseless accusations that have NO PART AT ALL in private or on IRC anywhere. Do everyone a favour. take your racial slurs and throw them out. Never use them again. Not here, not email, not IRC, not anywhere. You are offensive and looking for a fight.
Ok is you consider my Email as junk, is spam, ok, nice, my Email is junk.[[BR]] IRC Quotes no have any relevant here, my problem with English is not for no understand the comments of you and from EvilBob, right?.[[BR]] '''You attempt to deflect the issue'''[[BR]] You not, but EvilBob yes remarks things about Spanish language, and I mentioned you, because you seem instigating this discussion (speaking as example of legal war, crimes and history of my country, totally irrelevant and hurtful) and do not say anything to EvilBob observe, does know him longer than I have and you could have said something.[[BR]]
'''Email Quotes:'''
All comments of you, non-related with my question about russian fedora and skype, trying of disturb me remember the war, crimes and more in 70-80 years + comments of EvilBob of Spinach (es language), Mexican't, Bro (EvilBob hate bro word because is like "some ethnical groups in US"), is clearly that you and EvilBob have a seriously problem with racial, language and ethnical people.[[BR]][[BR]]
You don't stop the comments of Bob Jensen, and instigated him following the discussion, so, please no delete with the elbow what you wrote with your hand, only see the LOG of my xchat.[[BR]] Accusations based in the words of you and Bob Jensen, no more, no less, look the LOG again please.[[BR]] Only a redneck KKK or ultra nacionalist folk speak like EvilBob and you looking all and instigating the fight or you have a personal problem with me?.[[BR]] [[BR]] Look fenris02, I have no racial problem with any country or ethnical group. I tolk about "nigger" in ironic mode teasing of the BIG problem of Bob with SPINACH and you with my Country, that, repeat: IS THE SECOND TIME IN THE YEAR THAT YOU SPEAK ABOUT WAR CRIMES AND SUPPOSED ILLEGAL THINGS OF MY COUNTRY WITHOUT ANY REAL REASON IN THE MIDDLE OF A TECHNICAL CONVERSATION, SO:[[BR]] [[BR]] '''who has the problem?'''[[BR]] [[BR]] '''I think the answer is obvious'''
In addition, I aport much bug reports and solutions to Fedora, so, if you have any trouble with my person, ok, but I'm not going to move from the IRC, FAS Account or anything.[[BR]][[BR]]
And the comments about my bad english are of the final of the log, when all problem and abuse was had occurred, so, you do not take me for a fool, and neither who going to solve the ticket, nirik.
And remember Fenris02, this is a '''IRC''' ticket, no Email, so, Email quotes or Email words is for Email conversation, right?.[[BR]] If you want i can paste ALL Email, because you paste pieces of the Email and it is out of context, and you know.[[BR]] [[BR]] Repeat, if NIRIK, not you, want i paste entire Email here, is not related because i can see "IRC-SUPPORT-SIG" but if nirik want entire Email for understand the entire problem with you, no problem from my person, i don't paste pieces of a Email for change the context.
ago 09 01:11:24 <nix> Is legal or allowed submit to Koji M$ office[[BR]]
151 2007 in rpm format?[[BR]]
152 ago 09 01:11:29 <nix> is possible, using wine[[BR]]
153 ago 09 01:11:53 <fenris02> nix\, depends which countries laws you obey 154 now doesnt it.[[BR]]
155 ago 09 01:12:05 <fenris02> nix\, THINK for a minute. REAL HARD.[[BR]]
156 ago 09 01:12:46 <HadalPoint> nix\: You should package Internet 157 Explorer 6 in rpm format and submit to Koji. I'll support the effort![[BR]]
158 ago 09 01:13:13 <nix> fenris02: Argentina[[BR]]
159 ago 09 01:13:15 <nix> Legal is legal[[BR]]
160 ago 09 01:13:18 <nix> law is ley[[BR]]
161 ago 09 01:13:19 <fenris02> nix\, WRONG[[BR]]
162 ago 09 01:13:40 '''<fenris02> nix\, in argentina, WAR criminals were given''' 163 '''leeway for 60 years for crimes against humanity'''[[BR]]
164 '''ago 09 01:13:52 <nix> fenris02: is other thing'''[[BR]]
165 ago 09 01:13:52 <fenris02> MANY, countless thousands died.[[BR]]
166 ago 09 01:14:11 <fenris02> nix\, "legal" in .ar is not the same as .us 167 or .ru or any other country[[BR]]
168 ago 09 01:14:20 <nix> fenris02: actually war criminals are in prission[[BR]]
169 ago 09 01:14:33 <fenris02> nix\, no, they roamed free 60+ years.[[BR]]
170 ago 09 01:14:36 <HadalPoint> fenris02: Unless it's over the internet 171 of course. Then all laws apply. cough[[BR]]
172 ago 09 01:14:44 <fenris02> nix\, c'mon, you know your history.[[BR]]
173 '''ago 09 01:14:47 <EvilBob> lol'''[[BR]]
174 ago 09 01:14:52 <nix> fenris02: speaking of gramatic, is the same in 175 .uy .ar .es .co etc[[BR]]
176 '''ago 09 01:14:53 <fenris02> nix\, think back to the mid-80s in your own''' 177 '''country'''[[BR]]
178 ago 09 01:15:14 <nix> fenris02: yes, I know the history... is legal 179 that CIA do?[[BR]]
180 ago 09 01:15:15 <fenris02> why do i know what happened in the 70s and 181 80s in your country and you do not nix\ ?[[BR]]
182 ago 09 01:15:29 <HadalPoint> nix\: It's okay, I agree with you... so 183 does Judge Dredd. THE LAW IS THE LAW.[[BR]]
184 ago 09 01:15:42 <nix> fenris02: I have no shame about it, is that my 185 country sucks about many things[[BR]]
186 ago 09 01:15:48 <fenris02> nix\, legal? does not apply if you are 187 outside the country .. you obey the remote countries laws[[BR]]
188 ago 09 01:16:07 <fenris02> nix\, you obey the laws of the country you 189 reside in. not the one you were born.[[BR]]
190 ago 09 01:16:09 <nix> HadalPoint: Exctly[[BR]]
191 ago 09 01:16:11 <nix> a*[[BR]]
192 ago 09 01:16:12 <fenris02> nix\, they CHANGE[[BR]]
193 ago 09 01:16:18 <HadalPoint> lol..[[BR]]
194 ago 09 01:16:39 <fenris02> nix\, stop being a fool.[[BR]]
195 '''ago 09 01:16:48 <nix> fenris02: criminal 70-80 read in wikipedia''' 196 '''"operacion condor"'''[[BR]]
197 ago 09 01:16:59 <fenris02> nix\, yep. i'm quite familiar[[BR]]
198 ago 09 01:17:10 <nix> 199 http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_C%C3%B3ndor[[BR]]
200 ago 09 01:17:18 <nix> well[[BR]]
201 '''ago 09 01:17:22 <EvilBob> es?'''[[BR]]
202 ago 09 01:17:31 <nix> all war in argentina, uruguay, etc of latam[[BR]]
203 '''ago 09 01:17:32 <EvilBob> I don't read Mexican't'''[[BR]]
204 '''ago 09 01:17:36 <fenris02> changing topics to avoid admitting fault?''' 205 '''nice troll effort there nix\'''[[BR]] -> I'm the troll? I starting the conversation about crimes, war and history of my country?
206 ago 09 01:17:37 <nix> was orquested by eeuu[[BR]]
207 ago 09 01:17:55 <nix> by the CIA[[BR]]
208 ago 09 01:18:24 <fenris02> how's that iphone working for you nix\ ? 209 any of your friends have one?[[BR]]
210 ago 09 01:18:24 <HadalPoint> What does the CIA have to do with 211 Microsoft-Office.rpm ?[[BR]]
212 ago 09 01:18:26 <nix> Chile, Argentina, Brasil, Paraguay, Uruguay, 213 Bolivia , Perú, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador[[BR]]
214 ago 09 01:18:30 <fenris02> HadalPoint, about nothing[[BR]]
215 '''ago 09 01:18:36 <nix> EvilBob: Spanish'''[[BR]]
216 '''ago 09 01:18:39 <nix> No .mx'''[[BR]]
217 ago 09 01:19:00 <fenris02> iphone is perfectly legal to have if you are 218 in .us ..[[BR]]
219 '''ago 09 01:19:00 <EvilBob> You say spinach I say Mexican't'''[[BR]]
220 '''ago 09 01:19:04 * fenris02 waits for it ..'''[[BR]]
221 ago 09 01:19:06 <HadalPoint> EvilBob: lol[[BR]]
222 ago 09 01:19:11 <nix> fenris02: No, i no change the topic for admit 223 nothing.[[BR]]
224 '''ago 09 01:19:16 <fenris02> nix\, hahahahahhaa'''[[BR]]
225 '''ago 09 01:19:17 <nix> Only respond, shit with shit.'''[[BR]]
226 '''ago 09 01:19:20 <fenris02> nix\, move along.'''[[BR]]
227 '''ago 09 01:19:58 <nix> EvilBob: Spanish'''[[BR]]
228 '''ago 09 01:20:10 <EvilBob> Yeah, Mexican't'''[[BR]]
229 '''ago 09 01:20:17 <nix> Mexican is spanish too, but with some argot'''[[BR]]
230 ago 09 01:20:20 <EvilBob> ;)[[BR]]
231 ago 09 01:20:53 <nix> fenris02: If you way "criminal war", etc, i say 232 "yes, orquested by the CIA of eeuu".[[BR]]
233 '''ago 09 01:20:59 <EvilBob> nix\: As long as you don't claim to be''' 234 '''American, we will be OK'''[[BR]]
235 ago 09 01:21:22 <nix> EvilBob: Are you much nacionalist?[[BR]]
236 '''ago 09 01:21:23 <HadalPoint> EvilBob: South American?'''[[BR]]
237 ago 09 01:21:32 <nix> similar to george bush?[[BR]]
238 ago 09 01:21:51 <nix> hate arabic, nigger, latam, etc?[[BR]]
239 ago 09 01:21:55 * FranciscoD 240 (~Ankur^^@pdpc/supporter/active/franciscod) ha entrado en #fedora-social[[BR]]
241 ago 09 01:21:58 <HadalPoint> ehh[[BR]]
242 ago 09 01:22:04 <nix> hating*[[BR]]
243 '''ago 09 01:22:19 <nix> America is a continent'''[[BR]]
244 '''ago 09 01:22:29 * fedbot establece modo +q #fedora-social nix!@''' 245 '''ago 09 01:22:30 <fedbot> nix\, You have been quieted in this channel''' 246 '''for 15 minutes. Please read the FAQ in the channel topic and consider''' 247 '''changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the''' 248 '''channel. Take a break and consider things.'''[[BR]]
249 ago 09 01:22:33 <nix> North America other and South America other[[BR]]
250 '''ago 09 01:22:33 * #fedora-social :Cannot send to channel'''[[BR]] [[BR]]
nirik, or the person responsible for solve this IRC ticket, read this resume of the LOG and note the bold marked words. The log was not modified, only is a cut of the full log and marked with bold the most relevant words that involves the abuse and racism problem descript here.[[BR]] Thank you
@EvilBob || ago 22 01:49:49 <EvilBob> nix\: My "home" has a very strong Polish and Scandinavian immigrant background. One of the speech things that comes from that is most of my family and neighbors can't say "Mexican" it always comes out "Mexican't"[[BR]] [[BR]] But, Googling i found this: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mexican%27t and that is a despective way for call to mexican people: Mexican + Can't = Mexican't.[[BR]]
Very strange, all fine bob, but, after the chat with you, Google it "Mexican't" and I found this.[[BR]] [[BR]] I appreciate your apology anyway, but I wanted to show that it is used in a derogatory way, so be careful when you use that word
Trashing the integrity of Russia and Argentina vs. the US is incorrect in addition to being unwelcoming-bordering-on-offensive: the Global Integrity Report [http://www.globalintegrity.org ranks Argentina] higher than the US for its legal frameworks, and overall.
It seems very much like the channel ops were more interested in cracking race jokes ("Mexican't" is not a word I want to see in a Fedora channel, particularly not when deployed by native English speakers against a Spanish speaker) than answering the original interesting question, or allowing anyone else to.
I think it reflects incredibly badly on the community for channel ops to be hassling someone based on their nationality. The IRC channels are supposed to be welcoming and polite.
Replying to [comment:11 seeitcoming]:
Trashing the integrity of Russia and Argentina vs. the US is incorrect in addition to being unwelcoming-bordering-on-offensive: the Global Integrity Report [http://www.globalintegrity.org ranks Argentina] higher than the US for its legal frameworks, and overall. It seems very much like the channel ops were more interested in cracking race jokes ("Mexican't" is not a word I want to see in a Fedora channel, particularly not when deployed by native English speakers against a Spanish speaker) than answering the original interesting question, or allowing anyone else to. I think it reflects incredibly badly on the community for channel ops to be hassling someone based on their nationality. The IRC channels are supposed to be welcoming and polite.
OK lets address this, The Russian part first. The original question was why some "Russian Fedora" includes something that the REAL Fedora does not, the answer of "Different countries have different laws" for some reason was not understood. I still don't know why.
The Argentina part... I really have no idea where fenris was going with this or why. Argentina has a spotty history when it comes to some things but again, I don't know why it matters.
The question was posted in a NON-SUPPORT channel, the "ops" and other users of the channel should not be interested in giving support there, it is a social, light hearted channel.
As for nixfas being a Spanish speaker, I had no idea, I don't care, I've never had a problem with them they do a fine job of helping users in the #fedora support channel most of the time and is an overall fun person to socialize with in the -social channel. I've never known "Mexican't" to be used in what I would call a derogatory manner. "Back home" the influence of Polish and Scandinavian language makes all my family and friends with the regional accent to pronounce "Mexican" as "Mexican't" and even my friend Manuel who is a 1st generation "American" who's Father came to the US legally use it ALL the time. Hell he calls me an "American't."
I think it reflects poorly on the community for everyone to be sprung to God damned tight that they can't even see when people who are otherwise their friends are joking. I explained my side of things to nixfas and apologized for my part in any unintended offence they may have taken, which they accepted.
This interaction was in a social channel and was the result of misunderstandings. All involved are advised to try and not take or offer offense when jokes are involved. It a topic is uncomfortable to you or you are unsure if people are joking, please communicate and ask or leave the conversation
Replying to [comment:13 dcr226]:
This interaction was in a social channel and was the result of misunderstandings. All involved are advised to try and not take or offer offense when jokes are involved. It a topic is uncomfortable to you or you are unsure if people are joking, please communicate and ask or leave the conversation[[BR]] [[BR]] Dcr226: Bob Jensen apologized and clarified everything with me, but fenris02 (Dennis), not, so, why is marked as closed/fixed when fenris02 is not explain me or to #fedora about remember me a spotty history, war crimes, etc?.[[BR]] For show me that the same law is different in some countrys is not needed speak about Argentina+war+crimes+non-legal country, ok?.[[BR]] [[BR]] So, please, fenris02 going to apologize me or penalty is to be applied?. #fedora-social is the same for ticket that #fedora, the guidelines say that.
Do you actually require an apology from everyone you encounter in life? I mean come on, sometimes you just have to let things go.
-- Bob
Discussed this at our meeting again on 2013-09-12 the resolution at the meeting was to close ticket again and ask reporter to move on or communicate directly for any apologies.
Login to comment on this ticket.