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This feedback is:
{{{
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}}}

My IRC nick is: tbwen

Please briefly describe the interaction that caused you to file this
ticket:
I was asking for help on what was wrong with my Fedora 18, I had issues with primary graphic adapters. I said I was thinking of giving up and going back to Ubuntu. fenris02 became very hostile with me, muted me, then continued to be harass me while I was muted. After 15 minutes, I came back and told him I was sorry I offended him by "threatening" to switch to Ubuntu, but he was very hostile and his harassment was unwarranted by me. He continued to harass me.

Please note other IRC nicks that are involved in this interaction:
fenris02

Please describe what action or positive change could be adopted based on
this feedback:
Please reprimand fenris02

Any additional notes or logs:

{{{
[23:11] == tbwen [ae66620e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.102.98.14] has joined #fedora
[23:11] -ChanServ- [#fedora] "Any advice you read here is provided by individual community members. You should use it at your OWN RISK. This advice is owned by each individual, and does NOT represent the views of Freenode, Fedora or Red Hat. This channel may be logged"
[23:12] <[R]> 7Y: the compat-wireless website explains it quite well
[23:12] <StillBob> "<tbwen> I've spent nearly a week trying to insteall F18, and I'm about to jump to ubuntu again"
[23:12] <StillBob> See ya!
[23:13] == mintos_out has changed nick to mintos
[23:13] <altermann> ubuntu is no better
[23:13] <tbwen> So, I'm having large amounts of trouble setting up F18. I had to change my primary video adaptor from PCI-E to onboard in order for anaconda to work. Installed it, went well. Reboot with BIOS back to PCI-E, and I'm stuck at the log in page of F18, all user names grayed out, and a staticy icon
[23:13] <altermann> tbwen: it's time you learned Gentoo
[23:13] <tbwen> I revert to onboard, and then I get stuck mouse on top left, stuck at F18 load screen
[23:13] <tbwen> @altermann Gentoo? :\ why gentoo
[23:14] <altermann> cause it's more flexible
[23:14] <[R]> that's what she said
[23:14] <tbwen> I've spent so much time with fedora, I just want to make fedora work now
[23:15] <altermann> it seems linux and catering more and more to windows users nowadays
[23:15] <altermann> no more text installer
[23:15] <tbwen> Yeah, I couldn't find a way to get text installer which was my original problem
[23:15] <tbwen> but then once I installed, I can't get into GNOME, and I can't figure out how to boot into no GUI
[23:16] <_7Y> I cant get my driver compiled. what do I look for on the site?
[23:16] == jcda [~Adium@134.178.16.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[23:17] <tbwen> @altermann plus, if I wanted to go that route, I could have tried out arch linux
[23:17] <altermann> lol @ arch
[23:17] == sedawk [~sedawk@184-155-38-141.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:18] <Magiobiwan> Can I upgrade F17 to F18 in place, or do I have to reinstall?
[23:18] <tbwen> I'm about to wipe and put ubuntu --
[23:18] <[R]> Magiobiwan: use fedup
[23:18] <[R]> tbwen: you don't need to threaten us...
[23:19] <fenris02> tbwen, you boot into runlevel 3 / multiuser the same in both. so best of luck to you
[23:19] <Magiobiwan> Apparently, command not found
[23:19] <fenris02> Magiobiwan, 'yum update; yum install fedup'
[23:19] <Magiobiwan> That might help
[23:20] <fenris02> you'll need to update to current f17+updates prior to running fedup.
[23:20] <Magiobiwan> Yeah. Updating Fedora now.
[23:21] == Marc12 [~Marc@de2x.mullvad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[23:21] <tbwen> fenris02: what do you mean? That I need to boot into runlevel3 / multiuser or that I am doing that now, and need to not
[23:21] <mosno> wat, fedora still has runlevels?
[23:22] * mosno thought systemd would have done away with those
[23:22] == slipp3d [~Slip@71-210-122-88.blng.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:22] <StillBob> mosno: The name is different, the concept is IDENTICAL
[23:23] <StillBob> mosno: runlevel/target
[23:23] <mosno> ah, so they just kept the name
[23:23] <mosno> kk
[23:24] <fenris02> tbwen, i mean the process has not changed in 40+ years. so dont let the door hit you on your way
[23:25] <tbwen> fenris02: what does that mean?
[23:25] <StillBob> tbwen: One of the dumbest things you can do is threaten that you are going to run a different distro.
[23:25] <fenris02> tbwen, it means you have made a STUPID threat.
[23:25] <StillBob> tbwen: Because honestly, WE DON'T CARE
[23:25] <StillBob> tbwen: In fact, at this point I would personally prefer if you did run Ubnutu
[23:26] <tbwen> no need to be hostile, I'm a new linux user and I am trying to learn. Maybe you shouldn't be so elitist with your attitude. I am genuinely trying to install linux.
[23:26] <tbwen> I didn't know that this was a place where another distro of linux was a threat
[23:26] <StillBob> tbwen: It's obvious you are just a consumer, we don't need consumers, we need contributors
[23:26] <fenris02> tbwen, you started the hostility. threats remember?
[23:26] == mohits [~openperce@unaffiliated/mohits] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[23:26] <tbwen> Stop trolling and chill out.
[23:26] <altermann> tbwen: just install Fedora 17 if you're keen on staying
[23:26] <fenris02> tbwen, to be perfectly clear, here is your own words again -> <tbwen> I'm about to wipe and put ubuntu -_-
[23:27] <altermann> it works for me
[23:27] <fenris02> altermann, f17 has the exact same init process as f18.
[23:27] <tbwen> Yes, it's a sign of frustration that I've spent a week installing F18 and not able to get it to work.
[23:27] <StillBob> "<tbwen> <--snip--> I'm about to jump to ubuntu again"
[23:27] <fenris02> tbwen, you've spent 15mins.
[23:27] == _7Y [~omnoodle@bas3-ottawa23-1177565325.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[23:27] <fenris02> tbwen, not weeks.
[23:27] <Magiobiwan> It took you a WEEK to install Fedora?
[23:27] <tbwen> I downloaded F18 last monday
[23:27] <Magiobiwan> Go back to Windows
[23:27] <altermann> fenris02: is that what his issue is?
[23:27] <fenris02> tbwen, and?
[23:27] <fenris02> altermann, yeah. he wants a non-gui bootup.
[23:27] <tbwen> I go to school, and I work an hour every day trying to get it to work
[23:27] <hmaarrfk> .....................
[23:28] <fenris02> tbwen, waaah.
[23:28] <tbwen> What's your problem?
[23:28] <fenris02> tbwen, threats and crying are not going to help you. man up.
[23:28] <tbwen> stop trolling
[23:28] <tbwen> please stop
[23:28] <altermann> fenris02: it wasn't easy to achieve but you can block plymouth
[23:28] <mosno> StillBob, i appreciate the need for an active community, but according to the FAQ, Fedora is suitable for "consumers" http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ#Who_is_Fedora_suitable_for.3F
[23:28] <altermann> i've done it on 17
[23:28] <[R]> lol
[23:28] <mosno> (perhaps the FAQ needs updating?)
[23:28] <StillBob> mosno: LOL
[23:28] <fenris02> tbwen, heh. from where i sit, you are the troller here.
[23:28] * [R] plays the worlds smallest violin JUST for tbwen
[23:29] <mosno> StillBob, ?
[23:29] <fenris02> mosno, sure, works fine for most anyone that can point their browser to http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ and read a little
[23:29] <tbwen> Maybe I will to go another distro. If fedora's community is like this then I really don't want to stay with it
[23:29] <xanthaos> StillBob the truth is that Fedora does need some consumers else the contributors start to lose reason to contribute save their own wishes. But....
[23:29] <altermann> i was helped by somebody in this channel to block plymouth
[23:29] <fenris02> tbwen, bye.
[23:29] <tbwen> I'm brand new to linux and I tried learning by myself, and I needed some help
[23:29] <xanthaos> tbwen,
[23:29] <StillBob> mosno: Yeah, designers decided that they wanted to figure out a "target market" and ended up with "everyone" because they did not want to offend anyone.
[23:29] <mosno> fenris02, indeed
[23:29] <tbwen> And you're being hostile as hell
[23:29] <fenris02> tbwen, you're making threats. i've heard enough from you.
[23:29] <xanthaos> These guys know their stuff, and being hasty won't get you any better an answer
[23:29] <fenris02> tbwen, that's twice so far.
[23:30] <Magiobiwan> tbwen, in no way are you entitled to help here
[23:30] <xanthaos> I was once in the same shoes, and in some areas I still am. However I've learned that these guys are here offering advice for a reason...
[23:30] <StillBob> mosno: "liberals"
[23:30] <StillBob> ;)
[23:30] <xanthaos> The technology you're trying to install... They freakin designed it
[23:31] <xanthaos> You want answers, they got em. All they ask is two things: read the manuals/googles, and be respectful.
[23:31] <tbwen> Then this is why computer science is doomed in america. Developers are elitists who scare away all newcomers
[23:31] @fedbot Hey, we want to make the channel better. How about dropping us a note and let us know how you feel the channel is doing, good or bad and give feedback about users or issues also. https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ (Tickets reviewed weekly)
[23:31] == mode/#fedora [+q tbwen!@] by fedbot
[23:31] @fedbot tbwen, You have been quieted in this channel temporarily. Please read the FAQ in the channel topic and consider changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the channel. If you feel this action was in error, please file a ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/
[23:31] <altermann> GOOGLE is your best friend
[23:31] <[R]> rofl
[23:31] <fenris02> tbwen, Enough. I want my 15mins of no trolling. thanks.
[23:32] <[R]> well if computer science is doomed... then thats good for me
[23:32] <[R]> more job opportunities
[23:32] <[R]> haha
[23:32] <xanthaos> Well I gave my take on it, it is what it is. q me if ya want, but that's as good as it'll get lol
[23:33] <altermann> tbwen you could also try openSuse
[23:33] <xanthaos> Or windows
[23:33] <Magiobiwan> Or a Mac
[23:34] <tbwen> Would you please stop. Stop harasssing me.
[23:34] == Cannot send to channel: #fedora
[23:34] <Magiobiwan> Since that'll probably be easy enough for you
[23:34] <altermann> omg not a mac
[23:34] <fenris02> or just chill out and THINK about what you are saying. That's my preferred method actually. Stop making idle threats to the very same people you are asking assistance of
[23:34] <tbwen> Stop harassing me. I mean it.
[23:34] == Cannot send to channel: #fedora
[23:34] <altermann> mac os x sucks more than any os available on the market
[23:34] <mosno> altermann, even puppy linux? ;)
[23:34] == JimmyNeutron [~Jimmy@c-67-169-81-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fedora
[23:34] == Marc12 [~Marc@88-83-35-190.customer.t3.se] has joined #fedora
[23:34] <hmaarrfk> why is everyone still bashing him, if he is now muted? shouldn't we be enjoying the quiet?
[23:34] <fenris02> altermann, and yet, was the basis for gnome.
[23:34] <altermann> mosno: no, puppy is ok
[23:35] <tbwen> STOP harassing me. I mean it.
[23:35] == Cannot send to channel: #fedora
[23:35] <aristocles> mac os x is certainly "consumer" grade, though. :)
[23:35] <altermann> fenris02: that was not a good move
[23:35] <fenris02> altermann, you using gnome3?
[23:35] <altermann> no
[23:35] <tbwen> STOP harassing me. I mean it.
[23:35] == Cannot send to channel: #fedora
[23:35] <altermann> KDE
[23:35] <fenris02> altermann, me either.
[23:35] <tbwen> STOP harassing me. I mean it.
[23:35] == Cannot send to channel: #fedora
[23:35] <tbwen> STOP harassing me. I mean it.
[23:35] == Cannot send to channel: #fedora
[23:35] <altermann> i use gnome 2 on centos
[23:35] <altermann> it's stable
[23:35] <Magiobiwan> I use KDE
[23:36] <fenris02> altermann, you might like mate-desktop on f18 then.
[23:36] == Magiobiwan [IRC@unaffiliated/magiobiwan] has left #fedora ["Leaving"]
[23:36] == Magiobiwan [IRC@unaffiliated/magiobiwan] has joined #fedora
[23:36] <Magiobiwan> ...
[23:36] <altermann> mate seems quite unstable
[23:36] * Magiobiwan misses the palmcheck for Synaptic Touchpads the Windows Drivers provide
[23:36] <altermann> but i'm getting tired of KDE's bloat
[23:36] <Magiobiwan> Anyways, I use LXDE on my VPSes
[23:36] <fenris02> altermann, oh, that's unfortunate. the maintainer for mate-desktop hangs out here often. dont see him at the moment though
[23:37] <mosno> altermann, best linux desktop ever... just doesn't have support from newer popular desktop apps
[23:37] <fenris02> Magiobiwan, for a vps, why bother installing a desktop at all?
[23:37] <altermann> fenris02: i will give Mate until F20 to mature
[23:37] * fenris02 lulz
[23:37] <Magiobiwan> Uh, so I can do speedtest.net on it
[23:37] <Magiobiwan> And show off my awesome bandwidths
[23:37] <mosno> altermann, centos that is
[23:37] <fenris02> Magiobiwan, facepalm
[23:37] <altermann> mosno: oh
[23:37] <Magiobiwan> Most of my friends don't notice that 1. My ISP is Colo@55
[23:37] <altermann> yeah
[23:37] <Magiobiwan> And 2. My location is Atlanta, GA
[23:37] <mosno> altermann, i loved my centos install so much...
[23:38] <altermann> i will be replacing gentoo at work with centos
[23:38] <altermann> the guy who i took the job from is a big gentoo fan
[23:38] <altermann> i like it too, i just don't like portage that much
[23:38] <mosno> altermann, there's always paludis
[23:39] <altermann> anything but ubuntu, thanks
[23:39] <Magiobiwan> I like CentOS for my servers. I also like Fedora for my laptop
[23:39] <altermann> the speediest linux disto i found is Parted Magic
[23:39] == yermandu [~yermandu@unaffiliated/yermandu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[23:39] <altermann> off live usb thou
[23:40] == shantorn [shantorn@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-zlxgawlqlbiumttq] has joined #fedora
[23:40] == stefw [~stefw@thewalter.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[23:40] <altermann> their integration of LXDE is marvelous
[23:40] <fenris02> altermann, there are too many ways to make $whatever_distro the "fastest distro around" with a few button clicks.
[23:40] <Magiobiwan> At my High School, in the Tech Department, I'm like, the ONLY Student tech who knows what a Linux is
[23:40] <altermann> fenris02: i guess
[23:40] <tbwen> Look, you guys are being unreasonable jerks. I used Ubuntu to learn linux, and I felt like chaning distros to fedora. I've spent a week of my freetime trying to insteall F18, finally got it to work, and then got stuck with a problem that I can't even pinpoint out. I'm sorry if I offended your mighty pedestal.
[23:40] == Cannot send to channel: #fedora
[23:40] == stefw [~stefw@thewalter.net] has joined #fedora
[23:41] <xanthaos> I'm thinking the same way. Thinking about going centos on my server, and keeping fedora here on the netbook
[23:41] * fenris02 wonders if anyone has support questions that pertain to here and have been simply missed over?
[23:41] <Magiobiwan> CentOS is good for servers, not so much for end user systems.
[23:41] <altermann> lol
[23:41] <Magiobiwan> Good idea to ask, fenris02
[23:41] <xanthaos> Actually fenris02 I asked the same question about four times earlier with no answer
[23:42] <fenris02> Magiobiwan, shrugs i'm waiting here until my next meeting anyhow :)
[23:42] == mohits [~sethimo@unaffiliated/mohits] has joined #fedora
[23:42] <xanthaos> Unless you want to give it a roll, it's about failures on umount
[23:42] <fenris02> xanthaos, "device busy" errors ?
[23:43] <xanthaos> Yes, and I've done some testing and found some patterns. Here they are:
[23:43] <xanthaos> I use mount.cifs to mount a samba share from another fedora system. If I do nothing with it, umount works normally.
[23:44] <xanthaos> However, if I open that share in dolphin or any other file browser, then it takes more than a half hour before umount will work and not produce the 'device busy' error
[23:44] <fenris02> xanthaos, do you use gnome / nautilus ?
[23:45] <xanthaos> no
[23:45] <xanthaos> Just dolphin, krusader, and another one that I've never seen before 17 in kde
[23:45] <xanthaos> not nautilus
[23:45] == f3xy [~eamon@cpe-69-207-98-120.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora
[23:45] <fenris02> xanthaos, for most of those, left-click on some device not attached to the cifs mount. right-click on the cifs-mount and select umount. alternatively close all your filer windows and run umount from the command line. use lsof to see who holds the lock on the mountpoint .. also from cli
[23:46] == NightTrain [~gm@unaffiliated/ridout] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[23:46] * Magiobiwan finds NightTrain's terminal
[23:46] == mode/#fedora [-q tbwen!@] by fedbot
[23:46] <fenris02> most often, it's the filer that holds the lock .. most of the time, that's "nautilus" .. which is why i asked about that one first
[23:46] <f3xy> hello is there a package for the uncompressed fedora17 debug vmlinuz?
[23:47] <xanthaos> I don't mount or umount from the gui tool, always from cli
[23:47] <Magiobiwan> brb
[23:47] <Magiobiwan> Reboot time
[23:47] <fenris02> f3xy, err, gzip? highly doubt that's what you really need however
[23:47] == Foxcool [~Foxcool@217.118.78.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[23:47] <f3xy> you can't just gzip it from what I have gathered
[23:47] == dunevich [~dunevich@c-50-136-73-61.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:47] <xanthaos> and I always make sure the gui tool is closed and my pwd is not the mount point
[23:48] <f3xy> it has the bootloader among other things tacked on the front
[23:48] <fenris02> f3xy, sort of you can .. but really - what is your actual end goal ?
[23:48] <f3xy> I'm trying to setup perf
[23:48] <xanthaos> the wierd thing is that I can try the umount and it will tell me busy. I can walk away for a half hour or so, rerun the command, and it works.
[23:48] <fenris02> f3xy, you dont need to uncompress for that..
[23:48] <xanthaos> no changes on my part.
[23:48] <f3xy> I'm doing a perf test
[23:48] <fenris02> xanthaos, lsof / lslk / fuser should tell you
[23:48] <xanthaos> Why is it taking so long for dolphin or other to release the device?
[23:48] <xanthaos> I tried lsof
[23:48] <f3xy> 1: vmlinux symtab matches kallsyms: FAILED!
[23:49] <tbwen> Look, you guys are being unreasonable jerks. I used Ubuntu to learn linux, and I felt like changing distros to fedora. I've spent a week of my freetime trying to insteall F18, finally got it to work, and then got stuck with a problem that I can't even pinpoint out. I'm sorry if I "threatened" you by switching a more learner friendly distro, but you should not not kept harassing me or silencing me.
[23:49] <mosno> speaking of nautilus... is there a way like in windows where the file manager prompts to elevate privileges for operations that need it? or is it being worked on? i seem to recall a while back thinking that one of the *Kits might be able to do it
[23:49] <[R]> ROFL
[23:49] <xanthaos> I tried it with a half dozen grep options and found nothing of interest
[23:49] <fenris02> tbwen, you waited 15mins to spout that? really? go away then.
[23:49] <xanthaos> such as dolphin, the pwd, the device name, mount.cifs, you name it.
[23:49] <f3xy> from what I have gathered I need to uncompress vmlinuz
[23:49] <fenris02> xanthaos, odd
[23:49] <hmaarrfk> @mosno, I don't think so
[23:49] <xanthaos> none of these returned anything
[23:49] <tbwen> I obviously didn't know the etiquette of this room, and I'm sorry if I offended, but you were being entirely unreasonably hostile
[23:50] <fenris02> tbwen, step 1) NEVER EVER EVER threaten someone you want help from.
[23:50] <fenris02> tbwen, notice how that is in no way related to irc, linux or anything other than mere social interaction
[23:50] <fenris02> tbwen, step 2) See step 1.
[23:50] <fenris02> f3xy, what perf tool are you using?
[23:51] <f3xy> none yet :D
[23:51] <fenris02> f3xy, then dont make trouble for yourself.
[23:51] <xanthaos> can you suggest another grep filter that might return something of use?
[23:51] <f3xy> I'm doing perf test
[23:51] <f3xy> how else are you supposed to learn! ;)
[23:51] <tbwen> fenris02: I did not mean to threaten, but you should have not kept harassing me. You should have pointed out what I did wrong. How are people supposed to change if you don't address issues, and you instead bully them
[23:51] <fenris02> tbwen, ok. last time i'm going to tell you. shut it. be polite. if you cannot or will not, leave.
[23:52] <fenris02> f3xy, what is your actual end-goal ? so far, "perf test" is meaningless.
[23:52] <f3xy> well I want perf fully functional that's my first goal
[23:52] <f3xy> then go from there
[23:52] <fenris02> f3xy, again, does not mean anything.
[23:52] <tbwen> fenris02: I'm being perfectly polite. But you should acknowledge your hostility was not welcome as much as my "threat" was not welcome. I recognized my mistake and I apologized.
}}}

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