It's only -13.0°F (-25.0C), hell has not frozen over...

Replying to [comment:1 bjensen]:

It's only -13.0°F (-25.0C), hell has not frozen over...

Excuse me?

looking back at the logs I will have to ask this question?

Dan why do you want to be back in #fedora-social
while you were there you did nothing but showed you had no respect for yourself nor others in the channel

at this time i will have to vote -1 on removing the ban

The sig has declined at this time to lift the ban.

Seriously? At what point would you consider lifting this ancient ban? Given the low likelihood of any long term damage from lifting the ban as requested it seems rather "unsocial" to persist in refusing to lift it.

I can't see how what was documented in the F16 ticket about this ban justifies it lasting this long, I've seen worse things in Fedora channels without anyone being banned. I hope you will reconsider this decision without waiting another year for another request from Dan only to glibly point out that hell hasn't frozen over yet.

It has been a year and I don't think it is unreasonable to ask what Dan needs to do to have the ban lifted?

Just for the record I will '''NEVER''' give removing a ban of Dan from #fedora-social a +1. I do not wish to deal with him '''EVER'''.

This ticket was discussed and a consensus was reached that it is better for the overall "health" of the channel that the ban remain not to mention the mental health of those tasked with being channel operators. We don't like to ban people, we hate it, there are just some people that give us no other choice. The policy of removing bans for no reason other than time past works well for some but there are cases that just don't justify the added work required from the volunteers who manage the channels. It is my opinion that this is one of those cases.

He was asked above "Dan why do you want to be back in #fedora-social while you were there you did nothing but showed you had no respect for yourself nor others in the channel." and he never answered. If he can't justify removing the ban why should we? Rather than asking what he needs to do, why not ask him what he has done to justify removing the ban?

In discussing this ticket I have heard the arguments "Oh just give him another chance, he will screw up again." and "I'm just sick of hearing about it to the point I just don't care." Both are poor reasons to remove a ban IMO. I have a hard time thinking of anyone that has been banned and given another chance more times from both #fedora and #fedora-social than Dan. That alone should speak volumes.

Once again this just shows the power trip BJensen is on, and how atrocious his attitude is. Absolutely atrocious.

I simply asked to be unbanned after being banned for a complete year.

And in reply to the question "Why?"[[BR]]
[[BR]]

1) I ask "Why not?". The reasons you stated above: not good enough.[[BR]]
2) I was banned for no good reason in the first place. [[BR]]
3) If you do not want to "deal" with me, then maybe you don't belong in the irc-support-sig.[[BR]]

2011:10:17 00:38:58 CDT-0500 * fenrus02 sets ban on $a:VICODAN

2012:05:04 06:33:58 CDT-0500 * EvilBob removes ban on $a:VICODAN

The current ban was set on 2012-06-05 NOT a year ago.

Please post further information about these transactions.

{{{
bzgrep -i 'dan408|vicodan' #fedora-social\ freenode2012-06.log.bz2

11:37 j_dulaney | dan408: French Horn actually takes a fair bit of effort to play
11:38 dan408 | j_dulaney: try playing trombone.
11:38 dan408 | have you ever played trombone?
11:38 j_dulaney | dan408: I have
11:38 dan408 | it is by far the best instrument ever, next to electric guitar.
11:39 dan408 | trumpet is hard because you have to up and down actives with your lungs
11:39 dan408 | fenris02: it is.
11:40 dan408 | i never got to learn trombone
11:40 dan408 | but i would always have the trombone guy make the "drunk noise"
11:40 dan408 | trombone is by far the funnest instrument ever
11:41 dan408 | will you wear a skirt??
11:41 dan408 | i mean kilt?
11:41 * dan408 has a skirt
11:41 dan408 | band practice
11:41 dan408 | j_dulaney likes fluts
11:41 dan408 | flutes
11:42 dan408 | he's taking his flute to band camp this summer
11:43 dan408 | you know what
11:43 dan408 | i'd rathere be a male cheerleader
11:43 dan408 | those were the smartest guys in high school if they weren't queer
11:44 dan408 | well
11:44 dan408 | why else would you be a male cheerleader?
11:45 fenris02 | dan408, see tamu.edu
11:45 dan408 | besides a) wanting to be a girl or b) looking up girls skirts like a pervert?
11:45 dan408 | let's be real here
11:45 dan408 | i just did
11:45 dan408 | where are the cheerleaders
11:46 dan408 | WHAT
11:46 dan408 | MIND. BLOWN.
11:46 dan408 | and i was more referring to high school.
11:46 fenris02 | dan408, those guys in white at sporting events? that's the cheerleading squad.
11:47 dan408 | fenris02: i thought that was the band.. sorry i was too busy staring at the chicks in short skirts dancing with pom poms
11:47 fenris02 | dan408, most of them are straight A students, and enlisted
11:47 dan408 | fenris02: are you sure you're not confusing them with the colorguard?
11:48 fenris02 | dan408, fucking grow a clue
11:49 dan408 | http://recsports.tamu.edu/programs/sport_clubs/clubs/comp_squad.stm
11:49 dan408 | if those are maloe
11:49 dan408 | male
11:49 dan408 | then uh
11:49 dan408 | im really worried about that school
11:49 fenris02 | <fenris02> dan408, those guys in white at sporting events? that's the cheerleading squad.
11:50 dan408 | most bands are male.
11:51 dan408 | fenris02: you're smoking rocks.
11:51 dan408 | http://competitionsquad.tamu.edu/sites/default/files/416871_2760802389444_1539330036_31955439_1067854416_n.jpg
11:51 fenris02 | dan408, what part of this statement did you not understand? <fenris02> try football. they stand out there.
11:53 dan408 | PLEASE.
11:53 dan408 | http://recsports.tamu.edu/programs/sport_clubs/clubs/comp_squad.stm
11:53 dan408 | do you see foot ball on there
11:53 dan408 | im done searching on there
11:54 dan408 | http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/x--Cheerleading--x-cheerleading-446458_350_395.jpg <-- guys looking up skirts
11:54 EvilBob | dan408: Stop your homophobic rant or you will have to be removed from the channel
11:55 dan408 | evilbob: thanks for reminding me to put you back on ignore
11:55 dan408 | good luck on your election
11:55 dan408 | * Updated ignore switches for evilbob!@
11:56 EvilBob | dan408: Yeah, I've already heard about you slandering me behind my back you fucking coward
11:59 dan408 | how was the air?
12:00 dan408 | yeah?
12:00 dan408 | i've heard it stinks there
12:00 dan408 | the air quality
12:01 dan408 | yep
12:02 dan408 | why did you go to china?
12:02 dan408 | business?
12:02 dan408 | really dude?
12:03 dan408 | that's peculiar
12:04 dan408 | uh
12:04 dan408 | http://locations.krispykreme.com/
12:04 dan408 | am i missing something?
12:05 dan408 | i went to china to try tiger penis.
12:05 dan408 | it wasn't worth the trip.
12:06 * fenris02 is noting why dan408 is so focused on making anti-gay comments
12:06 dan408 | uh
12:06 dan408 | that is not an anti-gay comment
12:07 dan408 | i guess you never watched the CNN special on what they eat in china and what are delicacies with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
12:07 dan408 | he actually tries it
12:08 dan408 | wait wut?
12:08 dan408 | i thought that was anderson cooper?
12:08 dan408 | wait, Sanjay Gupta is gay?
12:08 dan408 | my dreams have come true.
12:09 dan408 | Khaytsus: can you reach?
12:10 * Khaytsus tries to determine the amount of creepyness in dan408's question
12:10 dan408 | LOLL
12:10 dan408 | woopdeydoo
12:11 dan408 | aTypical: he's married with 3 kids btw
12:12 aTypical | dan408, LIKE THAT MEANS ANYTHING.
12:12 dan408 | whatever.
12:12 dan408 | i have a hot today.
12:12 dan408 | with momma sugar. not sugar momma.
12:13 * x_ wonders if dan408 's obsession with gays is a 'tell'?
12:13 dan408 | what is the deal with going from firefox 3 to firefox 13 in like less than 2 years?
12:14 dan408 | x_: date today is of the opposite sex.
12:15 dcr226 | dan408, are you gay?
12:15 dan408 | no.
12:15 fenris02 | dan408, he'll say "no" but he means "yes"
12:15 dan408 | he's not gay either.
12:15 [A] mode/#fedora-social <+b dan408!VICODAN@bitchx/fedora/vicodan> by fedbot
}}}

I can only speculate the reasoning of folks who don't wish to lift the ban, but perhaps they would like to see some kind of appology for past behavior and promise to do better instead of a demand for ban removal simply based on time.

If nothing is going to change, why bother?

I didn't see anything in the request to be unbanned that seemed like a demand here or at the meeting but perhaps I have missed part of this.

Looking from a distance though I see someone requesting a ban removal after what turns out to be around 7 months who doesn't feel the ban was ever justified. We can agree or disagree about that point but getting an apology in this case would be empty given his feelings about the ban being unjustified to begin with.

I have seen unwelcome interactions in the past as well but I have also observed much improvement over time. Of course I don't see everything but I do believe Dan is working on improving. I don't have any idea why he wants the ban removed and can only assume he either wants to participate like everyone else in #fedora-social or he just wants a black mark removed from his record. I could understand the latter more easily since the former is doomed to be met by hostility from others it appears.

If this is an impasse that we can't work around so be it. I've tried to help and appreciate you all listening. I won't reopen the ticket again.

Dan asked for "details" to be posted about his bans, I do not feel it is my place to post things, even if that is his desire, that will paint him in a bad light. Dan's actions in the community, both positive and negative are well known (many feel that the negative out weigh the positive). In order to be a constructive part of the "community" he does not need his dirty laundry flown in public.

It's been claimed that this is a power trip or similar bullshit on my part. I was the one that gave Dan a second chance last time removing his previous ban, only to have him kick us in the teeth by screwing it up in a month's time.

Every time we have had to ban him he plays the "ban evasion game" requiring, according to our policy, longer and longer bans. If he would take a +q or +b and let it ride he would only need to sit for 15 minutes, time to check his actions, he does not do this. '''He''' turns a 15 minute ban in to an hour, then a day, then a week, then a month, then to the point no one wants to deal with him ever again, and yes I am to that point.

Dan suggested in my case "If you do not want to 'deal' with me, then maybe you don't belong in the irc-support-sig." well it's not just me that does not want to deal with you, one of the others offered "If nobody wants to 'deal with you' maybe you shouldn't be involved in a community project" as a retort...

I wish you luck Dan, I honestly do.

-- Bob

Barring any new information from Dan or folks deciding to change their votes, I don't see any reason to leave this open.

We can revisit this if either of those things happen down the road...