I have the following proposal for an amendment to the existing IRC Support SIG Policy. Currently the nomination process is vaguely worded in the following fashion.
"New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket and asking to join. Voting members have 7 days to vote, majority vote determines outcome."
I propose that it be amended to read as the following:
New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket before the next scheduled meeting allowing voting members to discuss the nomination in an open forum.
After the meeting the nomination will be voted on by using the ticket system. A +1 denotes a yay and a -1 denotes a nay.
The ticket voting period shall last 7 days.
At the next scheduled meeting following the ticket voting period attending voting members are given a final chance to vote. All votes will be tallied and as last business the nominee is either appointed to the position or declined the position based on the majority of votes.
Your input is greatly appreciated.
Replying to [ticket:108 dp67]:
I have the following proposal for an amendment to the existing IRC Support SIG Policy. Currently the nomination process is vaguely worded in the following fashion. "New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket and asking to join. Voting members have 7 days to vote, majority vote determines outcome." I propose that it be amended to read as the following: New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket before the next scheduled meeting allowing voting members to discuss the nomination in an open forum. After the meeting the nomination will be voted on by using the ticket system. A +1 denotes a yay and a -1 denotes a nay. The ticket voting period shall last 7 days. At the next scheduled meeting following the ticket voting period attending voting members are given a final chance to vote. All votes will be tallied and as last business the nominee is either appointed to the position or declined the position based on the majority of votes. Your input is greatly appreciated.
I think we should add that at the voting meeting, your final bullet point, that it is not the time for discussion, vote only. Discussion should take place before the voting meeting.
-- Bob
Replying to [comment:1 bjensen]:
Replying to [ticket:108 dp67]: I have the following proposal for an amendment to the existing IRC Support SIG Policy. Currently the nomination process is vaguely worded in the following fashion. "New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket and asking to join. Voting members have 7 days to vote, majority vote determines outcome." I propose that it be amended to read as the following: New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket before the next scheduled meeting allowing voting members to discuss the nomination in an open forum. After the meeting the nomination will be voted on by using the ticket system. A +1 denotes a yay and a -1 denotes a nay. The ticket voting period shall last 7 days. At the next scheduled meeting following the ticket voting period attending voting members are given a final chance to vote. All votes will be tallied and as last business the nominee is either appointed to the position or declined the position based on the majority of votes. The final voting period is not for discussion. All discussion should take place on the ticket nominating the candidate the week before the final vote. Your input is greatly appreciated. I think we should add that at the voting meeting, your final bullet point, that it is not the time for discussion, vote only. Discussion should take place before the voting meeting. -- Bob
I have the following proposal for an amendment to the existing IRC Support SIG Policy. Currently the nomination process is vaguely worded in the following fashion. "New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket and asking to join. Voting members have 7 days to vote, majority vote determines outcome." I propose that it be amended to read as the following: New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket before the next scheduled meeting allowing voting members to discuss the nomination in an open forum. After the meeting the nomination will be voted on by using the ticket system. A +1 denotes a yay and a -1 denotes a nay. The ticket voting period shall last 7 days. At the next scheduled meeting following the ticket voting period attending voting members are given a final chance to vote. All votes will be tallied and as last business the nominee is either appointed to the position or declined the position based on the majority of votes. The final voting period is not for discussion. All discussion should take place on the ticket nominating the candidate the week before the final vote. Your input is greatly appreciated.
The final voting period is not for discussion. All discussion should take place on the ticket nominating the candidate the week before the final vote.
Added..
Replying to [comment:2 dp67]:
Replying to [comment:1 bjensen]: Replying to [ticket:108 dp67]: I have the following proposal for an amendment to the existing IRC Support SIG Policy. Currently the nomination process is vaguely worded in the following fashion. "New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket and asking to join. Voting members have 7 days to vote, majority vote determines outcome." I propose that it be amended to read as the following: New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket before the next scheduled meeting allowing voting members to discuss the nomination in an open forum. After the meeting the nomination will be voted on by using the ticket system. A +1 denotes a yay and a -1 denotes a nay. The ticket voting period shall last 7 days. At the next scheduled meeting following the ticket voting period attending voting members are given a final chance to vote. All votes will be tallied and as last business the nominee is either appointed to the position or declined the position based on the majority of votes. The final voting period is not for discussion. All discussion should take place on the ticket nominating the candidate the week before the final vote. Your input is greatly appreciated. I think we should add that at the voting meeting, your final bullet point, that it is not the time for discussion, vote only. Discussion should take place before the voting meeting. -- Bob Added..
How about this...
I meant to add the link to the page we are discussing.
[http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IRC_support_sig]
Looks good to me.
that is..
So, I'm confused on one point...
The "final voting meeting" is the only place you can vote?
Votes taken in the ticket are not counted? Or simply the "final voting meeting" is the last chance to vote or change your vote and all votes in ticket or meeting are tallied?
I think it might be better to ask for all votes in the ticket, so theres an easy record of who voted how?
Replying to [comment:6 kevin]:
So, I'm confused on one point... The "final voting meeting" is the only place you can vote? Votes taken in the ticket are not counted? Or simply the "final voting meeting" is the last chance to vote or change your vote and all votes in ticket or meeting are tallied? I think it might be better to ask for all votes in the ticket, so theres an easy record of who voted how?
So we should drop the final vote meeting and just tally the voting results from the nomination ticket and bring them to the meeting following the 7 day voting period. Then make the election or decline the last order of business in that meeting. (Before open floor.) All votes +1 or -1 should be brought up on the ticket and not the list or IRC, this centralizes the results. That sounds OK to me too now that I've had a power nap.(I've been up over 24 hrs)
How does this sound?
New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket before the next scheduled meeting.
Voting members will have a chance to discuss the nomination in an open forum at the next scheduled meeting prior to casting their vote. Nominees are encouraged to attend this meeting and answer any questions or address any concerns if they are able but are not required.
Any tickets filed after a scheduled meeting shall be held until the next meeting for the review process to begin. The 7 day period will begin after said meeting has been held.
After the meeting the nomination will be voted on by using the ticket system. A +1 means a yay (yes) and a -1 means a nay (no). Any further issues should be brought up on the nomination ticket during this period. Nominees are again encouraged to participate by addressing any issues or concerns brought up but are not required to do so.
The ticket voting and discussion shall remain on the ticket system during this time and last for a period of no less than 7 days.
At the next scheduled meeting following the ticket voting period All votes from the ticket will be tallied and brought up as the last order of business for that meeting. Wherein the nominee is either elected to the position or declined the position based on the majority of votes. This meeting is not a time for discussion. All discussion should be taken care of on preliminary meeting or on the nomination ticket prior to the final meeting.
Declined is not really the word I'm looking for either, it just doesn't sound right. Does anyone else have a better choice of word to use? That's all the refining I can think of now. Comments or suggestions welcome.
My suggestion has been retracted, attempted out of band discussion has proved that some are unwilling to use common sense. IMO this ticket should be closed as "CAN'T FIX".
All tickets requiring a vote must have 2 meetings: one for discussion, '''only''' for final voting.
Should be "one" instead of "only"? Otherwise I agree, this gives adequate consideration, discussion, and voting time.
OK, here's a suggestion for the policy page.
Wiki-Sandbox https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Dp67/sandbox/irc-sig
Complete wiki-markup: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Dp67/sandbox/irc-sig&action=edit
= IRC Support SIG = = What Is The IRC Support SIG =
The [[Irc| IRC]] (Internet relay chat) Support [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Interest_Group SIG] (Special interest group), is a group of people who seek to improve support users get in #fedora and promote a fun social area in #fedora-social.
= Members =
Anyone can be a member of the SIG. Just start helping others in #fedora, chatting with others in #fedora-social and attend our weekly meetings in #fedora-meeting at 17:00UTC (Noon EST) on Thursdays each week.
= Channels =
Currently the SIG controls/manages the following channels:
Operators in #fedora, #fedora-social and/or #fedora-unregisterd are welcome to join and idle in #fedora-ops.
Invited contributors can be allowed temporary invitee status by nomination from an op and a second from any other operator for a maximum of 2 weeks. For longer term invitee status a vote should be required as defined below.
Those not in the above 2 groups are welcome to join and discuss an issue or concern from the other 3 channels, but are asked to then depart after their issue or concern is noted.
= Voting Members And Voting =
A subset, irc-support-operators [[FAS]] group, of the SIG will be voting members and be able to vote on issues brought up for a vote before the SIG.
Voting members are anyone who is an operator in any of the above listed channels (4 channels as of 2012-05-11), anyone voted in as a voting member, and the FPL (Fedora Project Leader) only in the case of a tie vote. Voting members should remember to listen to the community as a whole when making decisions.
In all cases (aside from promoting/removing members), broad consensus should be attempted first and if no clear consensus can be reached a vote should be taken. All new operator/voting member tickets require a vote.
= Items Requiring Votes =
All tickets requiring a vote must have 2 meetings: one for discussion, one only for final voting. At the discretion of the nominator and/or the primary chair for the meeting, voting can be extended before or at either of these meetings. The ticket should include the discussion meeting date and voting meeting date. At this time meetings are held on Thursdays, a ticket filed on Tuesday or Wednesday does not have to be discussed at that Thursday's meeting at the discretion of the nominator and/or the primary chair for that week's meeting. Should the primary chair of the discussion or voting meeting feel more time is needed they have the option of extending the discussion period there by changing the vote date, this should be noted in the ticket description.
Voting members and the community will have a chance to discuss items requiring a vote in an open forum at the discussion meeting prior to casting their vote.
After the discussion meeting the ticket will be voted on by using the ticket system and the final voting meeting. A +1 means a yay (yes) and a -1 means a nay (no) with a +0 ([http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abstain abstain]) option. Any final issues should be brought up on the ticket during this period.
At the final voting meeting, all votes from the ticket will be tallied and voting members will be queried for votes if they have not or if they would like to change their posted vote on the ticket. These ticket items should be brought up as the last order of business for the final voting meeting before the open floor. Wherein the ticket is either passed or denied based on the majority of +1/-1 votes, abstaining (+0/-0) votes not being counted. In the case of a tie the sig should ask the FPL to either have the final word or appoint a non-voting member to do so for them. The final voting meeting is not a time for discussion, all discussion should be taken care of at the discussion meeting or on the nomination ticket prior to the final voting meeting.
= Operator/Voting Member Tickets =
New operators/voting members are nominated by existing operators and/or voting members using the ticketing system. If you are interested in one of these positions please contact an existing member to sponsor and nominate you. Please include the nominee's primary IRC nick and what channels they are being nominated for in the ticket subject. Nominees are encouraged to be active on the ticket for their nomination and to attend the discussion meeting so they can respond to any questions or address any concerns if they are able, this is not required.
Existing operators/voting members can be removed in roughly the same way as the process to add them. Inactive members can be removed if there is a majority vote as described in the voting part of this document.
When and if other channels wish to join the sig, rules for that can be added for that channel.
= Mailing List =
The [[IRC_support_sig| IRC Support SIG]] has an open mailing list (subscribe to post) at: [https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/irc-support-sig https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/irc-support-sig]
General ideas or discussion welcome there.
= Trac Instance =
The [[IRC_support_sig| IRC Support SIG]] has a trac instance at [https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig]
Use your Fedora account ([[FAS]]) to login and leave us a ticket.
= FAQ =
'''Q''': I wish to bring up an issue to the sig, how can I do that?
'''A''': Please file a trac ticket on our trac instance: [https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ irc-support-sig] it will be looked at at the next meeting.
Replying to [comment:10 dp67]:
OK, here's a suggestion for the policy page. Wiki-Sandbox https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Dp67/sandbox/irc-sig Complete wiki-markup: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Dp67/sandbox/irc-sig&action=edit = IRC Support SIG = = What Is The IRC Support SIG = The [[Irc| IRC]] (Internet relay chat) Support [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Interest_Group SIG] (Special interest group), is a group of people who seek to improve support users get in #fedora and promote a fun social area in #fedora-social. = Members = Anyone can be a member of the SIG. Just start helping others in #fedora, chatting with others in #fedora-social and attend our weekly meetings in #fedora-meeting at 17:00UTC (Noon EST) on Thursdays each week. = Channels = Currently the SIG controls/manages the following channels: fedora - This is the main support channel fedora-social - This is the main social channel. fedora-unregistered - This channel is used to hold unregistered with freenode folks before they join #fedora for support. Channel operators of #fedora and #fedora-social are also operators of this channel if they wish. fedora-ops - This channel is for coordinating and discussing management of the other 3 channels above. All #fedora and #fedora-social operators are also operators in this channel by default. Operators in #fedora, #fedora-social and/or #fedora-unregisterd are welcome to join and idle in #fedora-ops. Invited contributors can be allowed temporary invitee status by nomination from an op and a second from any other operator for a maximum of 2 weeks. For longer term invitee status a vote should be required as defined below. Those not in the above 2 groups are welcome to join and discuss an issue or concern from the other 3 channels, but are asked to then depart after their issue or concern is noted. = Voting Members And Voting = A subset, irc-support-operators [[FAS]] group, of the SIG will be voting members and be able to vote on issues brought up for a vote before the SIG. Voting members are anyone who is an operator in any of the above listed channels (4 channels as of 2012-05-11), anyone voted in as a voting member, and the FPL (Fedora Project Leader) only in the case of a tie vote. Voting members should remember to listen to the community as a whole when making decisions. In all cases (aside from promoting/removing members), broad consensus should be attempted first and if no clear consensus can be reached a vote should be taken. All new operator/voting member tickets require a vote. = Items Requiring Votes = All tickets requiring a vote must have 2 meetings: one for discussion, one only for final voting. At the discretion of the nominator and/or the primary chair for the meeting, voting can be extended before or at either of these meetings. The ticket should include the discussion meeting date and voting meeting date. At this time meetings are held on Thursdays, a ticket filed on Tuesday or Wednesday does not have to be discussed at that Thursday's meeting at the discretion of the nominator and/or the primary chair for that week's meeting. Should the primary chair of the discussion or voting meeting feel more time is needed they have the option of extending the discussion period there by changing the vote date, this should be noted in the ticket description. Voting members and the community will have a chance to discuss items requiring a vote in an open forum at the discussion meeting prior to casting their vote. After the discussion meeting the ticket will be voted on by using the ticket system and the final voting meeting. A +1 means a yay (yes) and a -1 means a nay (no) with a +0 ([http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abstain abstain]) option. Any final issues should be brought up on the ticket during this period. At the final voting meeting, all votes from the ticket will be tallied and voting members will be queried for votes if they have not or if they would like to change their posted vote on the ticket. These ticket items should be brought up as the last order of business for the final voting meeting before the open floor. Wherein the ticket is either passed or denied based on the majority of +1/-1 votes, abstaining (+0/-0) votes not being counted. In the case of a tie the sig should ask the FPL to either have the final word or appoint a non-voting member to do so for them. The final voting meeting is not a time for discussion, all discussion should be taken care of at the discussion meeting or on the nomination ticket prior to the final voting meeting. = Operator/Voting Member Tickets = New operators/voting members are nominated by existing operators and/or voting members using the ticketing system. If you are interested in one of these positions please contact an existing member to sponsor and nominate you. Please include the nominee's primary IRC nick and what channels they are being nominated for in the ticket subject. Nominees are encouraged to be active on the ticket for their nomination and to attend the discussion meeting so they can respond to any questions or address any concerns if they are able, this is not required. Existing operators/voting members can be removed in roughly the same way as the process to add them. Inactive members can be removed if there is a majority vote as described in the voting part of this document. When and if other channels wish to join the sig, rules for that can be added for that channel. = Mailing List = The [[IRC_support_sig| IRC Support SIG]] has an open mailing list (subscribe to post) at: [https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/irc-support-sig https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/irc-support-sig] General ideas or discussion welcome there. = Trac Instance = The [[IRC_support_sig| IRC Support SIG]] has a trac instance at [https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig] Use your Fedora account ([[FAS]]) to login and leave us a ticket. = FAQ = '''Q''': I wish to bring up an issue to the sig, how can I do that? '''A''': Please file a trac ticket on our trac instance: [https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ irc-support-sig] it will be looked at at the next meeting.
+1 for this revision in it's entirety. I see no problems or room for confusion.
I'd like to push the discussion of this proposal to next week. (5/24/12) I have a doctors appointment the 17th and will be unable to attend.
Is there some way we could get a diff against the current content?
it's kind of hard to note all the changes when reading a completely separate comment.
Some general comments:
I'd avoid even mentioning the irc-support-operators FAS group, unless we clearly define who it contains. I think it probibly should just be deleted unless it serves some kind of function.
The paragraph with "All tickets requiring a vote must have 2 meetings" still reads very dense and difficult to me, I think we might be able to simplify it some.
Tickets which require a vote have two phases:
The discussion phase: This happens at the meeting following the ticket being filed, and optionally at the discretion of the ticket filer or meeting chair, additional meetings to allow for sufficient discussion.
The voting phase: Once at least one discussion meeting has happened (and optionally additional ones), votes will be taken in the ticket and the next meeting, after which the issue shall be decided and the ticket closed.
The ticket will be updated noting when each phase is in progress.
Other than that, it looks good. I like the additional info at the bottom too!
Commenting inline...
Replying to [comment:13 kevin]:
It is pretty much a new document expanding on the current.
it's kind of hard to note all the changes when reading a completely separate comment. Some general comments: I'd avoid even mentioning the irc-support-operators FAS group, unless we clearly define who it contains. I think it probibly should just be deleted unless it serves some kind of function.
I think this has been cleared up in this [[https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Dp67/sandbox/irc-sig&oldid=289330|revision]].
The paragraph with "All tickets requiring a vote must have 2 meetings" still reads very dense and difficult to me, I think we might be able to simplify it some. Tickets which require a vote have two phases: The discussion phase: This happens at the meeting following the ticket being filed, and optionally at the discretion of the ticket filer or meeting chair, additional meetings to allow for sufficient discussion. The voting phase: Once at least one discussion meeting has happened (and optionally additional ones), votes will be taken in the ticket and the next meeting, after which the issue shall be decided and the ticket closed. The ticket will be updated noting when each phase is in progress.
This is also in the above linked revision.
Meeting 2012-05-24
Discussed the [[https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Dp67/sandbox/irc-sig&oldid=289330|revision]] will work as a small group on Tuesday 2012-05-29 to add a couple items overlooked. Vote on Thursday 2012-05-31 if possible.
Made an update to the channels section to clear up the "invitee" status in the #fedora-ops channel. This was mostly a formatting change, the [[https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Dp67/sandbox/irc-sig&oldid=289497|revision]] is available. See the edit history for the diff if interested.
/me keeps learning wiki stuff
Consensus at the [http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2012-05-31/irc-support-sig.2012-05-31-17.00.log.html meeting on 2012-05-31] reached to push this ticket another week. Please take time to review [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Dp67/sandbox/irc-sig the sandbox], comment and vote on this.
These changes were approved at todays meeting.
Additional changes can be made when desired.
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